I'm against the bail out too.

American made cars are sold overseas. Let's put it this way most people who live overseas rather pay 35,000 for a BMW or a Mercedes, which are status symbols than pay 35,000 for a American made Anything. The only American vehicle made that is popular in Europe are Harley Davidson motorcycles.
Plus the most foreign countries use more public transportation due to not being able to afford to a own vehicle due to high insurance cost, high gas prices in which they always have been paying.

One last thing not all Japanese vehicles are made in japan The Toyota Tacoma is made in California

and let all the lazy Americans just be homeless, penniless and hungry. What a great plan.

I think that is because most immigrants are hard working, they came from a country that is oppressed by the government, Mexicans, Asians, Russians, and so on, They have had to work hard to survive, they come here and put that same work ethic to practice.
We Americans are spoiled, this generation coming up is a "give me" generation, don't want to work, but wants it all...

the union has no say in company policy, nor does it have any choice in the direction the company takes in its research and development practices. Union folks are just going to work every day doing what they're told, like the rest of us. It's the CEOs and board members who make business choices based on how the market is swinging to maximize their personal portfolios, instead of looking out for what's best for the company, that need to be held accountable.
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The big 3 didn't think they needed to keep up with technology. They didn't believe the market trends. They were so hooked on their market profits, they didn't see that they were being passed up by other companies with more vision. They were like the hare that got so far ahead of the tortoise it took a nap, only to wake up and see the tortoise crossing the finish line.
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Until company policy changes, I can't be for a bailout. I hate putting the workers out of work. They haven't done anything wrong. But I'm afraid if we give the CEOs and board members money without strict conditions on it, they will just keep doing the stuff that got them in the mess in the first place.

Do think GM CHOOSES to pay a union worker $65 an hour to mow the f*****g lawn? The extra $1000 in wage and benefit costs that GM has to pay over what Toyota does may play SOME role in the competitive advantage Toyota enjoys. As for technology, GM and Ford now have some of the best in the world, and quality has improved dramatically, with some American products leading their class in that regard.

It shows an issue in our society. People/business don't learn lessons from their mistakes because we've eliminated the effects from making bad decisions. whether its some kid that keeps being a menace to their community that has others making excusses for their behavior, or corp execs getting billions when they leave a company that has been run into the ground. I would like to see more (here is that word again) accountability and consequences for bad actions or lack of action.

...compared to what government is spending on bailouts. Besides, about half those profits go to government anyway, and furthermore, with oil approaching $40 per barrel, the profits ain't gonna be there...

$12,000,000,000 (that's billion) per quarter in profits for ONE oil company, Exxon......doesn't sound that paltry to me.

...but compared to $700,000,000,000.00 and counting, it is. Besides, oil companies were losing money in the '90s and probably will again as oil prices decline. Then, of course, the Dems will raise the gas tax dramatically, depressing demand and...profits.

that oil companies tell us exactly what they want us to hear, and no more.

politicians...

Or any big money business that buys politicians makes policy foreign or demestic for that matter. There isn't much of a difference between the two. If you really want your voice to be heard vote w/ how you spend your money. We're a consumer society first and then a democracy. at least thats the way it's starting to look.

when churches try to legislate morality....I mean domestic policy?
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Sorry I sequed off topic like that. You gotta pick your moments.
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Back to the oil companies. On that point I agree with you.

I can't understand why conservatives who have so little trust in government place so much trust in "anti-trust" corporations.

I don't trust either.
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The truly sad thing

is you thought that was a really clever response.
Submitted by beerBoy on September 28, 2008 - 6:50pm.

you not only remember the post but the date and the time. Do you keep a record of everyones comments like the nixon tapes?

when it comes to beerBoy. Gotta love him.

What a vivid imagination

you have.
Submitted by beerBoy on November 6, 2008 - 7:34am.
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;)

just beerboy/arts/moderate/?... I find it amusing to illustrate her selective outrage and hypocritical comments.

You're incredibly lucky we don't have as dedicated an archivist following YOUR posting history. LOL.

Don't you think I've already considered that? I own everthing I say (post).
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basic rule of internet rhetoric

you make the assertion - you provide the supporting evidence.
Submitted by beerBoy on November 6, 2008 - 9:49am.
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This is NOT directed at you Witchi... it's provided only as an example...
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wow

Do you have any response to anything that doesn't show you as an ass? I write a post appreciating your previous response and you come back with a total jerky response. You truly are a douche.
Submitted by beerBoy on October 8, 2008 - 12:54pm.

It was before he knew me. During that time we had monstrous troubles with trolling, and identity theft here on the board and nobody knew who anybody was. Especially someone who was new to the boards. I accept that I had to prove myself. I as well, being new, made some mistakes in interpretation, and misread things, as I didn't know people either. That's what you get for jumping in at the deep end without an introduction. LOL>
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Stop trying to stir the pot. You do my intelligence an injustice.

that response was to old_benjamin after I had written an appreciative response to a post of his and he came back with a snotty response. I was attempting to extend an olive branch to him and he bit my hand.
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iamjimm delights in taking bits of quotes out of context.

I'm starting to think you really are a fool

rather than someone pretending to be one.
Submitted by beerBoy on November 19, 2008 - 3:07pm.

that iamjimm has such an obsession with me.....
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if we could only channel that misplaced energy - think of all the good he could do!

come on guys don't you have anything else better to do ?. funny yr after yr the same old people with some "new characters" all haveing the same discussions or one person all posting under different names...LOL...fighting with Sybil.

Toyota for one, employs our unionized auto workers in their plants. That is not a valid argument.

It is simply unbelievable anyone could even think this way - oops! Did I say "think"?

ratujack is kidding right?

...and I apologize to him if I misinterpret, that Puritanical lefties are wrong when they say it is a sin for Americans to wish to live like Americans...

from the short sighted idea that we can only do that w/ oil. As a matter of fact i think in order to maintain the American way of life we need to be world leaders in alt energy. we were leaders in the first energy revolution I say we be world leaders the second time around and maintain our super power status for our kids and not let a few people get even richer at the cost of our nations security.

Energy should be a national security issue. Gas is not going to last forever. We are supposed to be world leaders in inovation and technology but to many people in the US want to stay stagnant thanks to divisive politricks. I'm a realist and understand that we still need oil for our infrastucture and economy because eclectricity wont move tractor trailers. And yes we should drill domestically to stop helping out countries that aren't really our friends but business partners exploiting us. But being a realist also makes me see the bigger picture is about national security. I personally would like to see more nat gas for commerce and start stock piling our oil reserves for the military. The trigger for world war 3 will be oil or drinkable water or both. The Chinese and the Russians aren't going to just back off and say go ahead and have it. They will fight us for it. The Russians are planting flags under polar ice to claim territory for the oil. Don't think that fighting the Russians or the Chinese is going to be easy. It will be very costly in American lives and I for one don't want to see short sighted greed lead us into this mess. The "patriots" that stand to profit from the next global war are the same people that Ike warned us about. I'd rather watch the short sighted kill themselves and/or sell the technology to others and make a profit for our nation.

I think that is a pretty level assessment. And pretty much what I've been saying all along. We know our economy runs on petroleum right now which means we need to drill reduce our dependence while working on alternatives for the future.

but yet people refuse to see the whole picture. i just don't get that

I know its seems that people really pick sides on this issue. Which is frustrating because the answer is we need to do all of it. drill, alternatives, nuclear. All of it.

independece and use in the future. The guys that aren't known for their ties to oil gave some pretty good ideas on the subject. McCain and his all options on the table idea and then Rudy made comments about how we need to take the same approach to energy that we did w/ the space race in the 60's. I mean sh*t we put a man on the moon and we cant come up with something new to power our economy. WTF?

Makes me believe they don't want to do sh*t. In which case we vote'em all out and start all over again.

Yeah!!!!